300SD veggie won't start (Full Version)

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300SD veggie won't start

  

pmiston -> 300SD veggie won't start (12/2/2007 2:47:12 PM)

Hello,

I own an 82 300SD that was converted to Veggie about a year ago. I also own an 84 300SD and a 78 300D converted as well

The 82 SD has been getting progressively more difficult to start...It now wont start at all. The car has 250 thousand miles on it and is in perfect condition, and has run perfectly till now
Starter is new, Bat is new, relay is new. The glow plug light does light up and does not blink. fuel is getting to the filters.... Short of changing the Glow plugs everything is tip top. Is it possible the that shut off valve could be stuck in the off position? I am going to change the Glow plugs, but I do not think that is the problem...and its a lot of work to change those puppies. I tried to break loose the injector lines as to access the glow plugs better, and they will not break loose..I feel my knuckles are going to get some damage. I am handy with these cars...but I am out of ideas right now. If anyone has any ideas I would be appreciative.

  
sfk -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/2/2007 4:14:18 PM)

First, I check my glow plugs by taking two clip wires.  Attach one to neg. battery.  other to a large fuse.  Then other wire from fuse to the outside of the glow plug.  The touch the center of the glow plug to the positive terminal of battery (using channel locks cause it gets hot fast).

Second way.  To be SURE all glow plugs light up.  I have taken them all out.  Then attach them to the same wire they are usually connected to and then ground them all.  (ie:  it is exactly as in the engine but now they are all exposed).  Grounding is a pain cause since they get hot they need to be up in the air and the positive can't touch any ground.

Ok, so now you have verified it is not the glow plugs or the relay.

Second question is, is it COLD where you live ? 

I had a similar problem.  My 300SD would have troubles starting at 35 degree F.

I adjusted the valves and bingo, it starts at 15 degree F now.  IT is VERY easy to adjust your valves.  My suggestion is going to dieselgiant.com and he has a video on how to do it.  You need two special wrenches that sell for apr. $15.    The big thing is how you rotate the wrenches to either expand the gap or reduce it.

I do NOT think it is your fuel filter (typical signs is when car is running at high speeds).

Question I have for you is did you buy the conversion kit for the vegi oil?  if so what are your recommendations?
Scott


pmiston -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/2/2007 8:01:35 PM)

I will try your suggestion this week. What puzzles me is that the glow plug light works...it lights up for a few seconds then goes out as it has always done and it does not blink which would indicate failure of one or more plugs.

I live in southern california and it has gone down to 40 degrees here...Burr LoL...my other two conversions start with not problems..so I dont think the temp is the problem.

I did do a valve adjustment on the car using dieselgiants tools and CD...It worked like a charm and the starts improved dramatically on all three cars and I recommend dieselgiant highly

The conversion I use is from Lovecraft biofuels. Go to lovecraft.com to see their stuff and forums. Their kit is $425 and with installation it was $730 its a very simple install if you want to do it yourself but I think it would be easier having seen one first. I had the 82 300SD done by them and did the other two car myself. I know that there are other systems out there...but this one has worked very well for me, so i have not explored any others
All three cars are running like champs..well at least 2 are now.... Power seems to be up and the engines are quiter. I have noticed that I get about 2 to 3 miles more per gallon, but that could be because of the valve adjustment. I use unused food grade soy oil that I get from a local distributor for about $1.90 a gallon. they occasionally have 55 gallon barrels of the stuff that they can no longer sell it as food grade for various reasons, but it is still ok for the car and clean. I have done some dumpster diving as well and run it in my cars also. Feel free to contact me if you want additional info. And thank you for your reponse.

B747200skipper@aol.com

sfk -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 4:36:23 AM)

Thanks for the tip on the Veggi!  I might respond later on that.  My problem is I don't know where I can get a cheap supply of it. 

Someone told me I can just get it from a regular restaurant and then he strains it through a pair of old blue jeans.  I just think that it would not be too uniform.

Also,
To answer you on the glow plugs:

The light on the dash board only blinks After 2 to 3 glow plugs burn out.

I have had on numerous occaisons had just ONE glow plug burn out and the dashboard light will act normal. 

Once you verify that it is or is NOT your glow plugs, then the only other thing it could be is a fuel delivery problem.

Especially since you are burning vegi oil, my next guess would be the Injection "nozzles".  (I can't think of the name right now).
Just follow the metal tubes from the injector into the engine.  I was always afraid of taking these tubes off.  (I am afraid cause I once tried unthreading the hydraulic hose off the oil radiator and literally over time the threads become "soldered" as one and it all became a nightmare chasing the lines back...).

so I digress.  Point is, they unscrew really easy, I ordered new ones (they are quite expesive, I think I got on ebay for like $55./ each) and replaced them all.  This is a easy/cheap as having someone do the "pop" test on them, to make sure that the diesel gets squired into the engine at the right pressure.

However, since the engine sounds like it runs good after it starts up, I still say the glow plugs.

Scott



pmiston -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 6:37:41 AM)

Scott,
   thanks again for your response...I will try all the tricks you have put forth. As far as using Blue jeans......I don't know about that...I use a 5 micron filter that I got from lovecraft...you can find them on line at other places as well. I used an old 55 gallon poly barrel...cut a 6 to 8 inch diameter circle on the top and let the filter hang into it. the filter has a metal ring ....sorta like a butterfly net....so you just pour the oil into it with ease...the filter catches all the bad stuff.   let the oil settle for a few days...and pump the oil out from about 3/4 down......I pump it into 5 gallon clear cubbies so I can see the oil and then pour it into my tanks with a simple funnel. Secondary filtering is up to you..I know those that do..I have not as I am satified with my primary. Oriental restaurents have the best oil as in most cases they change it more often and the food they cook in it has little fat. You want to stay away from MickeyD's type of places if you can...I do know some fast food owners that use there own stuff in their trucks though and have for a long time with no problems.You want to make sure there is no saturated fat in the oil...Saturated fat is bad for humans and bad for diesels..A small amount in the order of less than 5% will be ok. California has made it easy for us greasel folks, as they have outlawed the use of saturated fats in restaurents...thats about the only good thing "The Peoples Socialist Republic of California" has done in a while. Please note that I have used veggie in my cars that have not been converted in a 50/50 mix and have had no problems...in doing so I cut my fuel cost in half and it thins out the oil in colder weather...but 100% is what I do on all of them now. The only reason I go to the gas station now is to buy my over taxed cigarettes. It appears that my bad smoking habit is going to reverse the States debt.

Regards

Pierre

sfk -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 7:31:19 AM)

Ok,

So your suggesting I go to local chinese restaurant.  Did you have to give them a 55 gal barrel to put their grease into ? 
Or do you give them 5 gal buckets ?

If you give them a 55 gal drum, How do you then get it home?

Ok,  I think I can picture your "butterfly net" thing, but doesn't it take a really long time for the vegi oil to go through such a fine filter?
(I assume that butterfly net goes a good foot or so into the barrel).

I think you said you pay apr. $2./gal for your good quality vegi.  Do you pay from your restaurants?  I am just not sure how logistically this works.  I guess my first step is to stop by and ask.  (I assume they are already selling it to someone else).

hey, PS:  I bought a 1979 300SD as parts but I am now thinking of converting it to the vegi oil.  So past weekend really started to take it apart.
I finally got the head off and see that the #2 piston is bad (I did compression test and only got 120 psi while the others were close to 360 psi).  Anyway, it looks like the piston rings are bad (I can literally move the piston back and forth with my finger slightly).
I am not sure if it is cheaper/easier to rebuild this engine (have the pistons honed and install new ones) or to replace the whole engine with a used one.
I am going to post this as a new thread.  I am including a photo.

I just decided to buy the video on how to rebuild a 300SD motor for $79.98 with shipping.  I saw on ebay and then went to the website.  I haven't heard from them.

My big concern is when I try to set the timing.  I tried marking my sprocek to the chain (assuming the chain doesn't move at the bottom of the engine.  I have the chain tied up tight but I really want to rotate the engine).
Seperate subject:  For some reason when I started to take the engine apart, I couldn't rotate the engine even with the starter.  (and I know nothing was binding with the belts.)  can't figure out why.

Scott




[image]local://upfiles/19935/AA1B8DFED0A348B39811CED04F9C3FB2.gif[/image]

pmiston -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 8:11:07 AM)

Scott that engine looks rather ugly right now...Are you sure you want to rebuild it....You might be better off finding a good used one...I think that all said and done the price would be about the same. there are a lot of those cars with good engines and bad trannys that folks dont want to spend anymore money on. But if you are equiped to do a rebuild i wont try to talk you out of it. i have never rebuilt a diesel engine so i will be of little help to you on that. as far as your post on swapping engines...I beleive that a 5 cylinder is a 5 cylinder and should bolt right on....You might want to research this more...I will do the same...my  MB diesel guru is coming over today...the bavarian mad man he is....now if I could just get thru his thick german accent! and understand what he is saying to me....... LOL

the veggie oil goes thru the filter without any problem unless there is a lot of water and or saturated fat......but that is what you want your filter to do. If your filter gets gunked up....just wash it from time to time. No dont do the barrel with the restaurent...just provide them with  two 5 gallon cubbies and a funnel. find out what their useage is and pick up the oil so that they can keep refilling your 5 gallon jugs. yes i use clean new oil but i also get used from time to time when I have the inclination and time. you are right about the net it hangs into the barrel. The restaurent oil is free as you are doing them a service by removing their old oil..they usually pay someone to remove it...or worst they just throw it away. If someone is already getting their oil for car consumsion...dont step on their toes...bad edicate. but if they are using a service you can talk them into doing it for free for them.....any biz owner likes to save money

Scott try these website..the first one is rather comprehensive and will answer most of you questions the second is good as well

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/


pmiston -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 8:16:36 AM)

PS: you can also use a 20 gallon barrel at the restaurent..that seize is managable...mine has 2  handles on the top..and is fairley easy to move even full.

sfk -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 8:36:08 AM)

Ok,

On dropping off the 5 gallon or the 20 gallon containers.  Do you have a preliminary screen so that when they dump it, you get rid of all the big pieces of stuff (like vegetable, bread, etc.) ?
Also, doesn't the container need to be metal cause isn't the vegi oil like boiling hot when they dump it in?


On the 1979 engine, yes, it does look pretty bad (and explains why it ran so bad).
I have searched ebay and I can get a used engine for like $400 and up but there aren't any for sale near me (one out in Ca, and rest in midwest).  I don't want to wait too long...  yet, I agree to rebuild this thing,  ughhh,

Scott

sfk -> RE: 300SD veggie won't start (12/3/2007 8:42:57 AM)

Also,

When I took the head off, I thought that there were 5 (12mm) head bolts running down the middle of the head (I saw after I took off the cam).

I then stripped one of them.  Took a torch to another 4 of them.  Stripped one gut got the others out.

THEN, I realized after I had loosened the 3 of them off all the way, they are just "caps".  Ughhh, that was a horrible lesson.

Anyway, since I heated them up, the springs on the cam got cherry red so I would have to replace them, so yes, gettting a used engine would likely be easier.

Here's another photo.  (if you click on the thumbnail it expands out pretty good)

[image]local://upfiles/19935/EB813B2284DD4ADFAC2303A1F12847D2.gif[/image]

  

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