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Biodiesel - 1/5/2007 7:39:25 PM

woistmeinauto

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

Has anyone tried running biodiesel in their Benz yet? I have a 2007 ML320Cdi and have been burning only the ULSD so far. I am just beginning to look in to biodiesel and learning there are different kinds (B20, B99 etc.). I live in Austin, Texas and B20 appears to be easy to obtain, B99 a little more difficult. I am hesistant to try a new fuel until I hear a few success stories.

Does anyone have any experience to share on biodiesel?

Post #: 1

RE: Biodiesel - 1/5/2007 11:13:15 PM

amberolaman

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/24/2006
Status: offline

In my experience, my benz's (all from the 70's and 80's) have had the least trouble adapting to biodiesel of my entire fleet, which includes or has included a 10 litre cummins (heavy duty truck motor), a 14 litre cummins, a caterpillar and two internationals.

my first attempts were with 100% biodiesel processed from recycled vegie oil, I had trouble with all four of my trucks, and the benz's never missed a beat.

for the last two years I have run B99 made from virgin soy oil and I have had no trouble at all since making the switch.

Bio diesel is hard on rubber but since about the early 90's, I understand that the motor manufacturers have all switched to viton instead of rubber and it stands up to bio much better. The recycled bio gells at just about 30 degrees, and I haven't had any gelling at all with the soy down to about 26 degrees.

High mile motors will go through a few fuel filters as the bio disolves sludge in the fuel sustem left behind by dino diesel.

If you are going to run B20, you should have no trouble at all, and you will probably have no trouble with B99 either. My newer heavy trucks are computer controlled, and I sleep a little better running a tank of dino diesel about every third tank. It's okay to mix.

good lick

_____________________________

1937 170V, 1954 Bentley R Model, 1961 180B, 1970 280sel, 1972 280sel4.5, 1972 220D. 1974 240D, 1982 240D, 1983 300TDT, 1984 300DT

(in reply to woistmeinauto)

Post #: 2

RE: Biodiesel - 1/5/2007 11:42:21 PM

ForcedInduction

Posts: 731
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: Federal Heights, Colorado
Status: offline

Any more than B5 (5% biodiesel) in your 07 ML can void the engine warranty.

< Message edited by ForcedInduction -- 1/6/2007 1:17:18 AM >

(in reply to amberolaman)

Post #: 3

RE: Biodiesel - 1/6/2007 12:05:17 AM

amberolaman

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/24/2006
Status: offline

well, that about takes care of that!

_____________________________

1937 170V, 1954 Bentley R Model, 1961 180B, 1970 280sel, 1972 280sel4.5, 1972 220D. 1974 240D, 1982 240D, 1983 300TDT, 1984 300DT

(in reply to ForcedInduction)

Post #: 4

RE: Biodiesel - 1/6/2007 1:13:59 AM

ForcedInduction

Posts: 731
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: Federal Heights, Colorado
Status: offline

From http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/OEM%20Statements/20060608_Mercedes_Benz_bio_position.pdf

Mercedes-Benz Position on Biodiesel
As of June 8, 2006

Mercedes-Benz USA now approves the use of B5 biodiesel (standard diesel with a maximum 5 %
biodiesel content) in all Common Rail Injection Diesel "CDI-engines." As biodiesel can be refined from a
variety of raw materials resulting in widely varying properties, the only approved biodiesel content is one
that meets the ASTM D6751 specification and that has additionally the necessary oxidation stability (min.
6h, proved with EN14112 method ) to prevent damages to the system from deposits and/or corrosion.

Please ask your service station for further information. If the B5 biodiesel blend is not sufficiently labeled
to clearly indicate that it meets the above standards, please do not use it. The Mercedes-Benz limited
warranty does not cover damage caused by the use of fuels not meeting Mercedes-Benz approved fuel
standards.

________________________________________________________________________

Further inquiries can be directed to:

Robert Moran
Product & Technology Public Relations
Mercedes-Benz USA
robert.moran@mbusa.com
http://www.mbusa.com

or

National Biodiesel Board
1-800-841-5849
info@biodiesel.org
http://www.biodiesel.org

(in reply to amberolaman)

Post #: 5

RE: Biodiesel - 1/6/2007 2:27:20 PM

woistmeinauto

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

Wow, thanks for the informative responses. Kind of a roller-coaster reading through the posts though...from "oh boy, it looks like it may work" to "rats, MB is being conservative and I can't take the risk". Too bad - I bought the diesel MB instead of a hybrid Lexus partially for the ecological footprint (also because MB diesel engines are great and have an long history while the hybrid motors are still in their infancy). Oh well, maybe this policy will change as the industry experience with biodiesel matures.

Thanks again.

(in reply to ForcedInduction)

Post #: 6

RE: Biodiesel - 1/6/2007 2:46:27 PM

Charles Munn

Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: woistmeinauto

Has anyone tried running biodiesel in their Benz yet? I have a 2007 ML320Cdi and have been burning only the ULSD so far. I am just beginning to look in to biodiesel and learning there are different kinds (B20, B99 etc.). I live in Austin, Texas and B20 appears to be easy to obtain, B99 a little more difficult. I am hesistant to try a new fuel until I hear a few success stories.

Does anyone have any experience to share on biodiesel?

Before I bought this old MB I drove a 1990 VW Jetta Ecodiesel and had no problems using commercial biodiesel... However, others did have a problem and that's because the ASTM standards are not stringently enforced in the USA as they are in Europe. That's also the reason many European vehicles are not warranted when using biodiesel made in the USA.
Here's a list of vehicles and warrantys when using biodiesel. But I suspect those warrenty's only apply in Europe.
http://www.biodiesel.co.uk/fuel_story.htm#If%20you%20use%20diesel,%20should%20you%20use%20Biodiesel?

The same can be said for using VO. That is, as I understand it, a VO made under stringent conditions specifically for fuel is also manufactured in Europe. It's sold and controled by the same rigid ASTM standards and available in stations thoughout Germany and Europe

Still, knowing that using biodiesel or VO, in the USA, particularly WVO, is a chancey experiment at best, about 8 or 9 months ago I bought this old 1982 300D TMB, with good compression, no rust, no cracks in dash, etc., for $400. I sold the Jetta for $3700. and concentrated on the MB. Both engines were older designs, and much more able to withstand the possible abuse of experimental fuels.

Granted, the VW had an aluminum head, but the MB is solid iron. Just to be sure, I adjusted the valves, replaced the timing chain, changed all of the injector nozzles, fuel return lines, replaced the glow plugs, and did an ALDA service as well as by passing the switchover valve. That is, for an ancient auto with over 300, 000 miles, it was running perfectly.

At first I burned commercial biodiesel and didn't have any problems. But because so many others had their tanks gummed up with commercial biodiesel, I'm still very leary of the stuff. So as soon as possible, I converted it to burn WVO. At least I have some small control in that area.

So far I haven't had any problems but I'm very particular about the WVO which comes from 2 Japanese restaurants. They pour it directly out of the fryers and into jerry cans supplied by me, therefore all of the water has been cooked out. I suspect they also run it through those paper restaurant filters, because it's always exceptionally clean... I then filter it to 5 microns before filling the MB tank. Before entering the IP, it goes through another 4 different filters, including a 5 micron stanadyne water separator/flilter.

However, unless I lived in Europe where I can be reasonalbly sure of the fuel quality, there's no way in hell I'd burn US made biodiesel, homemade or commercial, WVO, or even VO bought at Costco, in a modern diesel engine.

< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 1/6/2007 3:09:16 PM >

_____________________________

1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha

(in reply to woistmeinauto)

Post #: 7

RE: Biodiesel - 4/22/2008 10:14:03 AM

Diesel210Dude

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline

I saw several comments about the 80's Benz Diesels, but does anybody know about biodiesel compatability with the 98 and 99 E300 Diesels?

I read something somewhere that said the injector pump was not made to run biodiesel, BUT.....that could really be said of any Mercedes Diesel, right? Besides the new CDI's, none of the injector pumps from previous years were made for biodiesel, right?

So, if I'm hell-bent on running B100 in a 99 E300D, what precautions and modifications, are necessary and/or recommended?

thanks.

(in reply to woistmeinauto)

Post #: 8

RE: Biodiesel - 4/22/2008 10:08:39 PM

ForcedInduction

Posts: 731
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: Federal Heights, Colorado
Status: offline

You can run any BioDiesel you want through it, I doubt it has a warranty left after 9-10 years.

There are some o-rings on the injection pump that are prone to leak if they are old and the fuel lines may start to leak. All of them can be replaced, the hardest is the injection pump o-rings because it needs a 30-spline socket to remove them.

_____________________________

1980 240D 3.0VNTi 216K Miles. OM617.95, GT2256V VNT turbo, 4-speed manual, Intercooler, 3.46 diff, 15mm rear swaybar, ALDA removed, no EGR and Amsoil by-pass oil filter. Currently 107HP and 195lb/ft of torque at the wheels.

www.youtube.com/Turbo617

(in reply to Diesel210Dude)

Post #: 9

RE: Biodiesel - 5/17/2008 1:09:42 PM

bahamutsd

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/16/2008
Status: offline

Hey guys I have a question about biodiesel. I am going to try and start making it for my 240d. Do I need to change any lines? I also have a question about making it. 1. How do know how much lye, alcohol, and other stuff to use? 2. What else is there other than lye, and alcohol? For the alcohol can you use Iso Heet for small quanities like 5 gallons at a time I have heard it just don't know? I don't have a machine like the ones for sale so can I make it in pots for cooking?

(in reply to ForcedInduction)

Post #: 10