Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (Full Version)

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Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?


  

gregp1962 -> Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (11/27/2006 5:43:00 PM)

I realize that electronic fuel injection made a HUGE difference in diesel engine performance. But, I don't understand why older diesels are soooo slow. Is there any retorfitting that can be done to an older diesel to make it burn cleaner and have more power?


  

ForcedInduction -> RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (11/27/2006 11:59:16 PM)

Not really. If you want a faster diesel, look for on from 1987 or later.


Charles Munn -> RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (11/28/2006 5:38:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gregp1962

I realize that electronic fuel injection made a HUGE difference in diesel engine performance. But, I don't understand why older diesels are soooo slow. Is there any retorfitting that can be done to an older diesel to make it burn cleaner and have more power?

It seems many Mercedes 123 owners with 617 engines regularly do the Lubro Molly diesel purge, as well as the occasional Italian overhaul.

They also insure that the inner workings of the banjo nut on the intake manifold and the clear plastic tube going up to the switchover valve is kept clean and soot free. ( you can find a pictorial of that on dieselgiant.com )

It seems many pull both plastic tubes off of the switchover valve and connect them together, thereby by-passing the switchover. The plastic tube then essentially runs directly from the banjo nut to the ALDA. Man, you'll see a world of difference!

Some even go further by adjusting the ALDA nut until, when reving the engine, they see a touch of black smoke. Then they back off until there's hardly any black smoke. [;)]Hence the old adage, "Man, he's smokin'!"
Finally, they put a bb pellet or small bearing into the plastic tube just as it enters the EGR......

I strongly suspect you'll be extremely pleased at the performance, especially if you drive a 300D T. But if one is driving in steep mountainous country pulling a heavy load, it seems without a switchover valve, there's a risk of ruining your engine. Also, I've read that it's very easy to break off the ALDA nut....


ostryjak -> RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (12/19/2006 12:52:11 AM)

I have a 1984 Turbo Diesel 300D and it was really slow off the mark until the turbo kicked in at 2K revs. I installed propane injection that switches on when the throttle is almost wide open and when I need some get up and go - it GETS up and goes. Really. Cost was $150. Works a treat. A regular 5 gal BBQ propane bottle lasts me about a month - cost $11+ extra a month for some decent pep. For a while I had the switch that opened the propane up on a manual switch and it was surprisingly useful in any gear range to give a boost to performance. If you are interested I can post some photos but its dark right now and I am not about to go out and take photos for this post :-) 


otm646 -> RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (12/19/2006 4:55:04 AM)

i have found several homebrew systems diagramed online. they are very simple to set up and regulate providing that you have a dual stage regulator which eliminates any output changes regardless of the input pressure of the tank up until it is nearly empty.  i am unsure of how much extra stress the trans in my 76 300d can take. she shifts well but with  460k its an expensive chance.

have you installed an pyrometer. this sensor reads your exhaust temperatures so you know if you are over heating the engine and turbo. for best results it should be installed before the turbo. this means that you must in all cases remove the turbo to clear all metal shavings. i have even seen a television program forgo this step and just try and get most of the shavings out with a magnet. turbos must be awfully cheap for them! You can install the sensor after the turbo and keep everything intact but your readings will not be as accurate.


ForcedInduction -> RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it? (12/19/2006 10:59:05 PM)

1983 240D 69hp in a 3500lb body. 50.7lbs/hp. 0-60 18-21seconds.
1983 300D 120hp, 3500lb body. 29.2lbs/hp 0-60 15seconds.
2007 Mustang V6 3477lbs, 210hp. 16.6lbs/hp. 0-60 6.6seconds

These MB's are FAR from a sports car. Almost nothing can be done to them without spending twice what they are worth to get the 0-60 time under 10 seconds.


Drrty240D -> RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE! (1/1/2007 12:03:41 PM)

You CAN install an electric turbocharger.  There is a company called electricchargers.com that makes a device that installs in your fresh air feedline.  Claims to boost performance by up to 30HP.  I don't have any personal experience with this unit, but it could be a fun project -- especially for only $100.  Based on the science claimed by the manufacturer you would have to see at least some improvement in performance.


ForcedInduction -> RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE! (1/1/2007 9:09:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drrty240D

You CAN install an electric turbocharger. There is a company called electricchargers.com that makes a device that installs in your fresh air feedline.


That's also known as a Bilge blower. You can buy them in sporting stores and boat stores for under $25. They are 100% worthless on any car. They cannot create pressure. Think about it. A normal supercharger draws about 30hp from the crank. Any "electric supercharger" worth a cr@p will be drawing over 100amps to pressurize the intake. Notice on your linked webpage that they show a dyno chart. HOWEVER, note that it only has ONE session on it. There is no before-after to show their claimed "30hp improvement."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3325434884865985766&q=electric+supercharger

Look on eBay: http://motors.search.ebay.com/electric-supercharger_W0QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3
There are 10 live auctions and 351 in the stores.
This one wants $370!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsubishi-Eclipse-Electric-Turbo-Supercharger_W0QQitemZ180068435828QQihZ008QQcategoryZ42604QQcmdZViewItem
This one is $600 FOR THE SAME THING AS ABOVE!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MimoUSA-Electric-Supercharger_W0QQitemZ8000826301QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38634QQcmdZViewItem

Personally, I just have to laugh at the fact that there are complete idiots out there paying $100+ for a $25 bilge blower and cheap air filter.

EDIT: Here is a good article: http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/el_blower/index.html


Drrty240D -> RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE! (1/2/2007 9:21:00 PM)

I see what you mean about those bilge blowers - total cheap crap.  What about the 1.7PSI / 13.8V / 120A / 1666W Super eRam unit?  Seems to be some science there....  electricsupercharger.com

For what it's worth, I checked further and found that the guy who invented the device, Mark Kibort, was actually issued a patent for his design, US Patent # 6,328,024 "Axial Supercharger."


ForcedInduction -> RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE! (1/3/2007 1:20:33 AM)

The e-ram is nice and all, but it's worthless on turbocharged gas engines and completely worthless on turbodiesels. The only things I'd consider an e-ram for is an under 2.0L, naturally aspirated 4-banger gasser or a naturally aspirated diesel under 3.0L.

Upgrading to a ball-bearing or VNT turbo will have a much greater effect than the e-ram for a better value.


  

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