RE: a different wvo mixture
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/21/2006 6:53:19 PM
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jlguler
Posts: 31
Joined: 11/21/2006
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Hello, Charles would probably have a better idea, he has been doing it longer. I took different ratios of ULSD and WVO and put them in the freezer overnight. I put a indoor/outdoor thermometer on top of the fridge, and put the outdoor probe in the freezer with the jar. I used glass jars to make sure I don't get
any #2 in the freezer. 50/50 started getting cloudy at about 18* but that oil had some moisture in it, That was as cold as my freezer got. 70% #2 with 30% WVO did not cloud at all. I will probably wait till it gets colder outside and put different percentages outside overnight and see what happens. I leave my fuel at 1/2 tank or less in case it gets cold and I need to add diesel. Temps have been in the 40's around here, a little colder at night, the most oil I have added has been about 15% so far. As it gets warmer, I will slowly start adding more oil...
Good Luck,
Regards,
John
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/21/2006 8:29:10 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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I'm running about 80 percent WVO and 20 ULSD. It's supposed to freeze tonight. Before I start Bruno I'll check the jar of pure WVO sitting at a safe place on the end of the driveway. It's only partially clouded up once and that was at about 24 degrees. But even if it's clouded, I strongly suspect ol' Bruno will fire up to about 0 degrees. Anything below that and I'll increase the ratio of the WVO accordingly.
BTW, Bruno is an outside auto... but I always plug in his block heater.
When I drained the fuel tank and replaced the strainer, I also changed the fuel line that gravity feeds out of the tank and into the fuel sump heater, clear filter, and electric fuel boost. It was 5/16" and now it's 1/2," so now that it's so much wider, even if it's cloudy, it should at least trickle down into the heater... and the electric fuel pump boost  should encourage it to do so....
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/21/2006 9:01:03 PM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/22/2006 12:12:08 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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I once installed a greasecar 2 tank system http://www.greasecar.com on a 1990 Jetta ecodiesel. It took me 2 wks to install the thing and another 2 months tweaking it. Granted, I drove it for a year before selling it and had no further problems. But I never liked the idea of continually reheating the VO which causes condensation, scum in the tank and lessens cetane value of the VO. I also didn't like the idea of using plastic PMex fuel lines that ran though a coolant hose under the car and make a connection inside the VO tank. What a nightmare installation that is! It also came with cheap plastic fittings used when tapping into the heating/coolant system, which resulted in a slow, but constant loss of coolant. I finally had proper brass connections made at Williams Oil and Filter in Tacoma WA.
I didn't have any further problems with it, but it seems to me when that little rubber O ring fails, and I strongly suspect it will eventually fail, you'll have coolant leaking into the now scummy VO tank. I also didn't like the notion of driving around with nearly 15 gals of 150 degree oil in my trunk.... not nice if you're rear ended. I could go on and on...
But if, after more consideration, you decide to go with a 2 tank conversion, then http://www.greaseon.com/ also has an elegant 2 tank system, designed for specific MB models which has solved those above problems. Better still, it sells for under $900.and, IMHO, is much easier to install than anything else on the market. Or you can opt for one of his single tank systems for about between ( I seem to remember ) $350. to $450. I bought 2 of his modules, plus switches etc... and did something a little different.... It cost me about the same price as a 2 tank conversion, but was still a relatively simple installation and it has flawlessly performed from day 1.
Good luck and best wishes,
charlie munn
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/23/2006 2:03:25 PM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/23/2006 4:03:29 PM
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thebenstenator
Posts: 15
Joined: 11/18/2006
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i found another question... with that one tank system you talked about earlier you would get cold oil in your engine, i've heard that's really bad... is that what mixing the 20% #2 is for... my dad is still really sceptical about using the one tank system and would rather use the two tanker, but having to switch the gasses, and everything else about having a two tanker sounds nice not to deal with.... well either way... thanks for everything
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/23/2006 7:51:33 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thebenstenator
i found another question... with that one tank system you talked about earlier you would get cold oil in your engine, i've heard that's really bad... is that what mixing the 20% #2 is for... my dad is still really sceptical about using the one tank system and would rather use the two tanker, but having to switch the gasses, and everything else about having a two tanker sounds nice not to deal with.... well either way... thanks for everything
I tend to agree with your dad, and it's smart to remember that even the best of systems, falls into the experimental range. Sure, the German Elsbet system is warrented by Elsbet, but not for WVO and then only in Germany where even fresh VO is made specifically for diesel fuel and the ASTM standards rigidly inforced.
So even though one may have upgraded to the newer/hotter pen type duraterm glow plugs, as your Dad warned, on start up, the injector lines and injectors will initially contain cold VO. The only way I know how to tackle that problem is by installing injector line heaters, which are pre heated to 200 or so degrees F, for 2 or 3 minutes before starting the engine.
However I also have a glow plug heater which heats the VO right before it enters the IP. Yet that first few seconds before the warmer VO inters the engine may be somewhat critical. To get around that, I followed John's lead and bought injection line heaters ( $40.00 for 5 on ebay ) which pre heats the oil to around 200 degrees right before it enters the engine.
The engine reaches full temperature in about 4 or 5 minutes, and then naturally heats the injectors and injector lines. That is, the injection line heaters are then no longer needed. With that in mind, I intend to put my injection line heaters on a dashboard switch, and turn them off after the engines gets to operating temperature. In that regard, if one properly thins the VO during the winter months, perhaps injetor line heaters are the only thing needed. Still, I have all of the other gear, simply because even the best WVO must be considered suspect. In that regard, it should be heated so that it will properly flow though a high quality stanadyne type filter. Avoid those filters that claim to have a centrafuge effect. They don't work on low pressure systems such as MB's.. That is, they only work on the bigger diesel rigs...
On the other hand, the main reason to have the glow plug sump chamber in the trunk, along with the electric fuel boost pump is to insure the VO can move up and through the stanadyne filter /water separator which is under the hood. I have that trunk glow plug sump chamber heater for the same reason I have a glow plug heater after the stanadyne filter and right before it enters the IP... and that's to keep the VO fluid and moving into the IP...And I'm adding the fuel line injector heaters in order to cover the problem your Dad alluded to...
In that scenario the engine is always getting 200 degree oil and or diesel. The fuel is easily moving though the fuel lines. Before starting the enigine, turn on the ignition switch for 2 minutes to allow the fuel lines to heat up, as well as the injector line heaters. Before you crank the engine the VO left standing in the inector lines heat to 200 degrees F. Hot VO flows into the pre chamber while 150 degree fuel flows into the IP. It' then flows into the injector lines and is then heated to 200 degrees by the injector line heaters. After 4 minutes or so, the VO is naturally heated to 200 degrees by the engine.
Even then, after the weather temp drops into the 40's F and even down to the 20-'sF, I thin the fuel by 20% with dino diesel, that's mainly to keep it flowing. ( The injector line heaters insure the engine is always started with about 200 degree VO.) If I suspect it'll drop to 0 degrees F, or colder, then I'll go to a 50/50 mixture of WVO and ULSD. If I suspect the cold will be ongoing, I'll switch to pure ULSD.
Still, you and your Dad could buy a good 2 tank system for greaseon. com or build your own 2 tank system designed along the same lines as both greaseon.com or elsbet.com.
I hope this has been of some help.
Best wishes,
charlie munn
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/23/2006 8:03:24 PM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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