RE: a different wvo mixture
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 12:54:27 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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I strongly suspect that anyone who has ever contemplated using VO as a fuel knows the Rudolph Diesel story, but that in no way proves that, in the long run, raw VO is better than petroleum diesel, or biodiesel. Certainly I hope it turns out that the use of raw VO is the future of diesels, and that at least some of the experimental kits are on the right track, and I applaud all of those who experiment with it. In that regard, I strongly suspect that a modern diesel engine could be built with the sole notion of burning raw VO.
But it's also very apparent that some who produce kits designed to lower the viscosity of raw VO all too often advertize that they have all of the facts and that raw VO is a proven fuel... As one who has been using VO for nearly 2 years, and who fervently hopes that it will not coke up and damage my autos, unlike you, I don't take things on faith. I don't choose to believe this thing or that thing simply because I want it to be so. That said, I strongly suspect that anyone who advertizes their product as the end all be all of burning raw VO for fuel is either extremely ignorant of the facts, or is merely another scam artist. That is, most honest people who produce raw VO kits will be the first to acknowledge that raw VO as fuel is still in the early experimental stages.
But by your initial tone, it seems apparent that you are a fervent believer in raw VO as a fuel and that belief is akin to a religion. In that regard, since I burn raw WVO in my old MB 300D T, and intend to buy a small diesel truck and do the same, I truly hope your belief comes to fruition.... But until that time I also hope that you encourage those who are now considering to burn raw VO in their, often very expensive autos, to do the research. Read the test results of the early studies of burning raw VO which rapidly coked up engines, as well as the newer German Study done in Sept of 2005 ..... Hell, if you could bring yourself to read such sacriligious documents done by those with truly rigorous, agnostic minds, even you might learn a thing or two.
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 6:39:42 PM
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Drrty240D
Posts: 146
Joined: 7/30/2006
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Ad hominem attacks indicate your unwillingness to apply reason and thought to your response.
Take a few minutes to contemplate, for example:
<< but that in no way proves that, in the long run, raw VO is better than petroleum diesel >>
The term "better" is subjective, but consider the following.
- Vegoil has higher lubricity than petrodiesel, improving engine economy and longevity
- Vegoil is green, renewable and completely biodegradable
- Vegoil contains no sulfur and burns 80% cleaner than petrodiesel
- Vegoil is part of a closed carbon loop, adding no new carbon dioxide to the environment
- Vegoil reduces dependence on non-US petroleum when used as a fuel
- WVO can be obtained for free most of the time
Clearly, vegoil and biodiesel fuels are "better" than petrodiesel.
<< As one who has been using VO for nearly 2 years, and who fervently hopes that it will not coke up and damage my autos, UNLIKE YOU >>
You need to think more clearly friend. You don't know me, do you think I am a beginner? My 240D runs great on WVO thru my Greasel hybrid conversion. I religiously pre-filter my WVO, change my filters and purge my injection system just as someone who completely understands operation of the system should.
The PRACTICAL automotive application of waste or raw vegoil requires heating to 160F before introduction to the combustion chamber. That in no way makes it a new or "experimental" science.
<< it seems apparent that you are a fervent believer in raw VO as a fuel and that belief is akin to a religion >>
Yes, I'm religious when it comes to a thing called common sense.
<< Hell, if you could bring yourself to read such sacriligious documents done by those with truly rigorous, agnostic minds, even you might learn a thing or two >>
Please think before you post. This forum is designed to help people. Smart-ass comments like yours belong in a Flame Forum somewhere, not here. Your kind of rhetoric doesn't impress anyone -- especially me.
< Message edited by Drrty240D -- 12/5/2006 6:41:18 PM >
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 8:39:53 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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I must admit, your last post has elegantly pointed out that you are operating within reliegious beliefs as opposed to rigorous thought. Your preachers pulpit is most obvously greasel.com... now goldenfuel.com... And while he certainly has a lot of info regarding WVO and the collection of WVO, he also misleads his customers into believing that he's the end all be all expert in VO and that burning raw VO and WVO is a proven art... And hey.. regardless of your beliefs... and my wishes that it were a proven art... it just isn't so... and getting angry rather than making an attempt to get other info besides the self serving opinions of one VO kit vender only puts you at a terrible disadvantage.
Still, I wish you the best . Since you seem to be totally committed to greasel, aka, goldenfuel, and his system of belief, I hope you at the very least make some small attempt to educate yourself by researching the findings of the very limited research in the barely touched upon scientific validation or invalidation of burning raw VO as a fuel.....In so doing you may arm yourself with a somewhat broader understanding of what is actually taking place in the highly interesting, yet experimental field of raw VO fuel.
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/5/2006 10:34:54 PM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 10:32:28 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
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Well, maybe there is a possibility that RUG is a valid VO thinning agent but I remain very skeptical because:
While it seems obvious that gasoline will thin VO, it's also obvous that diesel engines ignite fuel under pressure, while gasoline engines ignite fuel under flame. That is, diesel fuel requires cetane values and gasoline engines require octane. In that regard, gasoline does not provide any power to the diesel engine and VO would not provide any power to a gasoline engine. I guess one could add a certain level of VO to a gasser in the hope of providing some upper lubing, but IMO there are other, more efficient lubing agents, just as there are other more efficient VO thinning agents.
To sum up: Gasoline when used as a thinner in diesel engines burning raw VO does not add cetane value while kerosene or #1 diesel fuel or even # 2 diesel fuel are both thinning agents and also add the needed cetane to produce diesel power.
BTW: I'd like to add something like those heating elements to the lines entering the injectors... As you said, Fattywagon pulled them.... I suspect because they tended to overheat.... Yet, it seems to me, if they were somhow made to regulate their heat...by only heating up to maybe 160 degrees before the first startup, and then immediately shutting down....they'd really be a winner....
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/5/2006 10:49:37 PM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 10:32:44 PM
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Drrty240D
Posts: 146
Joined: 7/30/2006
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The <lady> doth protest too much, methinks.
Shakespeare's Hamlet, 1603
(Some things never change.) 
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/5/2006 10:47:43 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
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 Cute. I like it!
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/20/2006 6:06:32 PM
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Charles Munn
Posts: 244
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
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Check out http://www.greaseon.com/ Have a look at his system and if you are in the least bit mechanical, build your own. In truth, all one needs to do, even in Utah, is use a single tank system and in the winter thin the WVO with ULSD. Heat it with a glow plug heater right after it gravity feeds out of the main tank so that it's hot enough to flow to the engine compartment. A gp heater consists of black iron water pipe and one glow plug... Maybe $ 30. for parts.... Put one injection line heater on the last bit of metal fuel line under the hood, before it goes into an added stanadyne type water separator/flilter. Add injection line heaters that can be bought at ebay for $40.00, or make them yourself for maybe $15.00, and you've got a good, cheap workable system for maybe $300. I recently got 5 injector line heaters which I'll soon install.
The following is my set up in my 1982 300D T . I bought the modules from greaseon.com ... It's kind of silly but it does show the gp heaters, clear filters, stanadyne filter, another gp heater, and circuit boss. In the production  I'm BBBear , Bruno is the 300D T and Miss Veggie Fuel Manager is the module under the hood, on the dirver's side inner fender. http://mailcenter.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/4589C24900015B4E0000439A220702085302029A030A07049D0E080C?cmd=Show&no=2&uid=366642&sid=c0
< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 12/22/2006 11:43:05 AM >
_____________________________
1982 300D T, 322,000miles
1991 Lexus LS400 212,000 miles
1986 GMC, HD, "J", 429,000 Km
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenha
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/20/2006 9:06:20 PM
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jlguler
Posts: 31
Joined: 11/21/2006
Status: offline
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Hello, I agree with Charles. I bought a diesel car specifically for running alternative fuels at some point. At first I was going to build a biodiesel processor. Then I researched the subject further, and it seemed more people were going with two tank systems and running straight veggie oil instead of making biodiesel. Then I found people like Charles Munn and Henry Schuman, (and many others as well....) who are running one tank systems, blending when necessary. That is the category I now fall into. Two tank systems are a proven method of running VO in diesels. However, they are complicated. Most systems use coolant to heat the WVO, so you have coolant lines running all over the car. You need a reliable solenoid to switch between fuel sources. You need another tank (probably in the trunk), and heat exchangers, hose within a hose, etc etc.. You still have to run petrodiesel with a two tank system. I am not trying to discourage you at all. I am pretty new at this whole thing myself. I have been researching this subject for about a year, and the single tank system seems the most cost effective and unobtrusive. I personally don't want to drill holes in my trunk, spill WVO in it, etc... Charles has the Greason system, and he will tell you how easy it was to install. The less time you spend buying and installing gadgets, the more time you can enjoy driving the car, and the smell of fried food.
Regards,
John
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RE: a different wvo mixture - 12/21/2006 5:04:45 PM
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thebenstenator
Posts: 15
Joined: 11/18/2006
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hey that one tank system sounds great... but one more question (actually that's probably a lie) but how much ulsd should u thin it with because it's getting down into the negatives at times so.... maybe a coupla percentages would be nice.... thanks!
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. thanks again for all your help and once again any advice will be greatly appreciated.
