Prospective SL500 owner

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Prospective SL500 owner

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Prospective SL500 owner - 5/25/2004 3:44:30 AM

j.mac

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline

I am looking at buying a SL500. From 1991-1998. Can somebody advise me on any major changes (e.g torque, HP features etc) to these models? Which one represents the best buy? I am hoping to gather as much information as I can.
Cheers!

Post #: 1

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/11/2005 12:09:36 PM

stats007

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

You either want a post '96 or post '99 model. '99 saw the introduction of the M113 24V V8 which is a much better unit than the M119 engine and is used in the R230 SLs (although now due for replacement as it's 6 years old). Have a look at this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/history.htm

There are some inaccuracies but good for a general guide.

< Message edited by stats007 -- 5/11/2005 12:19:23 PM >

_____________________________

'01 SL500 Silver Arrow
'72 350SL

(in reply to j.mac)

Post #: 2

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/11/2005 11:51:18 PM

bobterry99

Posts: 126
Joined: 1/19/2005
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The M119 engine produced from model-years 1990-1998 is regarded as one of the finest engines Mercedes ever produced. But even the comparatively inferior M113 which succeeded it is a good engine, and I would not take this in to consideration when choosing a particular year.

Transmissions are another matter. For '96 a 5-speed electronically-controlled transmission replaced the earlier 4-speed. This transmission offers a considerably more refined driving experience over earlier models. However, early production versions had considerable reliability problems. For this reason I would tend to avoid the '96 model-year. Maybe '97 as well.

Models from '93 through '95 have a problem with disintegrating engine wiring harnesses. If you buy a car from this period and it has not had the wiring replaced, expect to spend about $1000 to have it done at some point.

A final consideration I would offer is repair costs. Non emission-related diagnostics on '96 and newer models require expensive tools. Many shops are not properly equiped, though the dealer is, of course. In contrast '95 and older models require nothing more than a 99-cent LED to retrieve diagnostics. Consequently, many simple repairs that would require a trip to the dealer on a newer car can be done by you are a basic repair shop on the older cars.

(in reply to stats007)

Post #: 3

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/12/2005 12:53:08 AM

sleepwalker

Posts: 7083
Joined: 4/12/2004
From: Philippine Islands
Status: offline

bobterry99,

you know the car much more than just owning it.

i fully agree with everything you said. excellent.

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Post #: 4

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/14/2005 10:37:14 AM

stats007

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

The M113 engine is regarded by anyone who services Mercedes V8s as a far better engine than the M119. It's lighter, more efficient, more reliable and creates a broader torque band for smoother power. No more distributor or valve guide problems for a start! Post '96 come with OBD2 (post '00 in Europe) which are just as easy to use diagnostic tools with to read and reset error codes. A reader is available for £15 in the UK. You can also buy an RS232 interface to OBD2 and software for monitoring and resetting from a laptop for £50.

It's called progress

_____________________________

'01 SL500 Silver Arrow
'72 350SL

(in reply to sleepwalker)

Post #: 5

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/14/2005 2:19:56 PM

sleepwalker

Posts: 7083
Joined: 4/12/2004
From: Philippine Islands
Status: offline

i really got big headaches on those older 119. very difficult to diagnose because i need to connect lots of wires just to do the engine analysis.

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Post #: 6

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/15/2005 1:57:36 AM

bobterry99

Posts: 126
Joined: 1/19/2005
Status: offline

Stats007 writes: "The M113 engine is regarded by anyone who services Mercedes V8s as a far better engine than the M119". I have found the opposite to be true. The techs and everyone else at mercedesshop.com all regard the M119 as the superior engine.

One tech's comments: "Dismantle a 119 engine and admire what was known as "Craftsmanship". Holes were drilled then threaded, all mating surfaces milled to perfection, truly built the "Old German Way!". Dismantle a 112 or a 113 and admire "Manufacturing". Holes that have self tapping bolts screwed in by a machine, non critical mating surfaces sealed with silicone sealer/filler, very evident that these are built the "Times a Million Way!". I love performing mechanical surgery on MBZ's formerly crafted engines but the new generation engines do very little for me beyond maintenance/triage!"

One of the tech/moderators writes: "The only reason [the M113 replaced the M119] was $$$$ & they are saving 50% over the cost of the M119. The M119 is a real engine!!"

Another tech/moderator was asked what the best M-B engine is: "119 engine all the way: One tough bastard."

And a forum member offers this anecdote: "while in Stuttgart...I had the opportunity to have lunch with some engineers from [DamilerChrysler] and they stated that the V8 E class with the M119 engine was the best engine build ever."

I hope Stats or someone can offer counterpoints. If the M113 is a better engine, I want to know it because I've been wanting to get one of the newer M-Bs but have been delaying solely because of the engine.

Finally, I think it is telling that with its new generation of engines Mercedes is abandoning the SOHC 3-valve per cylinder designs like the M113 and returning to the DOHC 4-valve per cylinder designs like the M119.

(in reply to stats007)

Post #: 7

RE: Prospective SL500 owner - 5/15/2005 2:55:26 PM

stats007

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

You can admire it all you like, but at the end of the day it had inherent design faults. The M119 had at least three revisions during it's lifespan and in the end it couldn't go any further. Maybe the US environment doesn't create the problems experienced here in the UK, but the reason I bought an M113 SL was 6 months of talking to owners and Mercedes specialists regarding the differences between the two. Regulations regarding recycling materials / emissions means modern engines can't be built in the same way- whilst I agree the M119 may be lovely to look at in pieces, this isn't going to help me unless I have the urge to stop using my car and strip it down. The M113 in PRACTISE is simply a better engine.

Oh and I don't recall AMG ever supercharging an M119 with the success it's had with the SL55