124 300D starts then dies

Mercedes Benz Forum Mercedes Classifieds Photo Gallery Member List Search Mercedes History Sponsors Contact
Mercedes Benz News Calendars Forum FAQ Mercedes Recalls TSBs Timeslips Register Login

124 300D starts then dies

Printable Version

Mercedes >> Mercedes Benz Models >> Diesel Discussions >> 124 300D starts then dies

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

124 300D starts then dies - 5/4/2008 6:37:02 PM

190camshaft

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

Hello All,
I have recently acquired a 1993 300D 2.5 Turbo that was not running when purchased (sat for about 2 years). A #2 cylinder lifter failed and caused one valve to break. I have had all of the necessary headwork completed, reinstalled the head (with new gaskets of course). After finishing up, the car now starts properly and then about 20-40 seconds later runs rough, smokes and sputters and in some cases dies.

I zip tied the cam sprocket during the process but am afraid timing may be an issue because I have ensured the fuel lines from the tank are cleared and still have the problem. Similarly, I disconnected several vacuum points including disconnecting both lines from the pump itself and still have the same condition.

EDIT: Also, I replaced both main and secondary fuel filters.

The question: Can being off on timing just a bit allow for a good start and good running for 20-40 seconds and then start missing and smoking badly?

I'm hoping its just out of time vs. needing an injection pump or somthing else.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

< Message edited by 190camshaft -- 5/4/2008 6:39:02 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/4/2008 7:50:33 PM

ForcedInduction

Posts: 731
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: Federal Heights, Colorado
Status: offline

Sounds like there is a restriction at the pickup screen in the tank. It is on the bottom of the tank above the axle.

If it was timing then it wouldn't run well at all.

_____________________________

1980 240D 3.0VNTi 216K Miles. OM617.95, GT2256V VNT turbo, 4-speed manual, Intercooler, 3.46 diff, 15mm rear swaybar, ALDA removed, no EGR and Amsoil by-pass oil filter. Currently 107HP and 195lb/ft of torque at the wheels.

www.youtube.com/Turbo617

(in reply to 190camshaft)

Post #: 2

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/4/2008 10:42:56 PM

lwbrewer

Posts: 78
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline

Bad fuel too?? Try a jug of fresh fuel and pull the line to the fuel pump put it and the return line in it. My tractor has had problems of water inbetween the injector pump and the injectors and acted simular to yours. The small jug also allows a heavey treatment with out useing a lot of additive as doing the fuel tank. 87 300D

(in reply to ForcedInduction)

Post #: 3

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/5/2008 6:28:55 AM

190camshaft

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

Thats a relief to know that if it was timing it would run poorly all of the time. Thank you.

I used compressed air to blow out all of the old fuel in the tank (then added fresh), I then blew air back through the the line (by the in-line filter towards the tank), at first there seemed to be resistance, now there is not. I also blew air through the return line and there was a lot of resistance there until it broke free and now I can blow throuh it.

Unfortunately the car behaves the same as before. Is it possible blowing it out was not enough?

Also, I think someone may have gotten creative and had gas in this thing, the old main filter smelled a bit gassy - I hope that wouldn't destroy the injection pump.

The tank seems to be pressurizing or something, after only a couple of 20-40 second runs you can hear a hiss when removing the cap - cant tell if its vacuuming in or blowing out though.

Thanks for the replys and thanks in advance for any further guidance.

(in reply to lwbrewer)

Post #: 4

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/5/2008 11:09:27 AM

ForcedInduction

Posts: 731
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: Federal Heights, Colorado
Status: offline

Pressure/vacuum in the tank is not normal. Check the vent valve, it is a plastic bell looking device that should be on the front left side of the rear trailing arm.

_____________________________

1980 240D 3.0VNTi 216K Miles. OM617.95, GT2256V VNT turbo, 4-speed manual, Intercooler, 3.46 diff, 15mm rear swaybar, ALDA removed, no EGR and Amsoil by-pass oil filter. Currently 107HP and 195lb/ft of torque at the wheels.

www.youtube.com/Turbo617

(in reply to 190camshaft)

Post #: 5

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/5/2008 7:38:54 PM

190camshaft

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

Well to rule out any tank issues whatsoever, I bypassed the tank and ran out of a bottle. Unfortunately, same situation is present, good start followed by rough running and smoking after 20-40 seconds. I'm thinking the injection pump must be the culprit, I think it might be likely b/c of the gassy smell at the main filter when I replaced it - would gas, left in the pump kill it?

2 questions:

1) Does the fact that its not a vacuum issue or a tank issue mean its an injection pump?

2) Is there any way that being even off 1 tooth on the pump timing could cause this, or would it run bad right away no matter what?

Thanks again, you've been a great help!

(in reply to ForcedInduction)

Post #: 6

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/5/2008 9:02:00 PM

lwbrewer

Posts: 78
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline

My small tractor diesel has got water through the pump into the lines, but would not go through the injector. Treated it two ways small bottle of heavey treated fuel, or disconnected the lines from the injector and turned it over. It would start up sound good then die or almost die. Don't get in a hurry to replace one of the most expensive parts yet.

(in reply to 190camshaft)

Post #: 7

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/6/2008 6:30:03 AM

190camshaft

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

I loosened the lines at the injectors and turned it over until the lines were putting out fuel after I replaced the gassy smelling fuel filter. I cant imagine there being any more issues in the lines from the pump to the injectors. I spun it over for about a total of 90 seconds or so, do you think it would need more than that? - fuel was coming out evenly. Also because of the head being off, the lines were removed and they were dry when I reinstalled em.

As long as this seems to be a non-timing issue, I'm afraid I may need a pump. Any other ideas?

Thanks again.

(in reply to lwbrewer)

Post #: 8

RE: 124 300D starts then dies - 5/8/2008 6:51:23 AM

190camshaft

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

Update:
I was told to check the injectors from a local MB tech and he suggested that perhaps one of the injectors is leaking causing the engine to load up. Unfortunately, the same situation is present on 4 cylinders as it is with 5, regardless of which injector is disabled - after about 30 seconds it starts smoking and running very rough.

I still am not sure if perhaps being just 1 tooth off on the pump timing could cause this, is there a way to check the mechanical position for accuracy? The locking port on the side of the IP has the special tool that locks it in, if I go to 15degrees ATDC (per manual), shouln't I be able to engage the lock tool??? I just want to rule this out as I go down the list of possiblities. If there is no reason to check this (based on it running well at start), then I won't do it, but I just don't know what direction to go in at this point.

Any other ideas as to what could cause this?

Any suggestions are welcome, thanks in advance.

(in reply to 190camshaft)

Post #: 9