Ready for the draft?

If the USA remains in Iraq it will soon be forced to rapidly increase active military personal. That means the draft needs to be re-activated. ASAP!

Don't count on the Democrats to get us out of Bush'es mess in Iraq. They'll do a lot of jawboning, but in the end, they're merely a faction of the one big Corporate Party. Democrats, like Republicans, know if the USA loses Iraq, it also loses the Middle East. In the process, it also loses much of its status and is hugely diminished as the one and only super power.

We all know the USA is hugely dependant upon ME oil. I also strongly suspect that most here realize that Iraq is a massive geo-political lever. That is, because of Iraq's geological location, which includes the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, whomever controls Iraq, controls the ME. While a stable oil source is of paramount importance to the USA, and the entire world, the waters of the Tigris and Eurphrates and other Iraqi rivers are also equally important to the remainder of the Middle East. http://starryskies.com/articles/2003/03/iraq.html

It now seems most likely that those under the magic age of say, 30 years, need to get their wills in order and prepare for the not so grand Iraqi/Middle East adventure.... Oh, yes, less we forget... Afghanistan also seems to be rapidly slipping back into the hands of the Taliban... Big Oil, hence the US government, can't allow that to happen because Big Oil/USA needs to build a pipeline across Afghanistan in order to pump Turkministan's oil into India and Pakistan...... http://starryskies.com/articles/2003/03/iraq.html

Yep, it does seem the old Chinese curse has come true... and we are indeed living in interesting times.....

I am so fed up with this Nuke'em now ask questions later! Scared the Japanesse into submission didnt it?

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ORIGINAL: mbz300sdl

I am so fed up with this Nuke'em now ask questions later! Scared the Japanesse into submission didnt it?

Yes, the 3 nukes dropped on Japan did scare them into submission. And there probably are thousands of good ol' boys who'd nuke Iran, or even the whole of the Middle East... merely because the ME won't bend to our will... Hell, I can't count how many times I heard that when I was in the USAF... They are mostly ignorant bumkins, but some of them are well educated, so go figure! I guess that sort of sociopathic person will always be there to egg humankind into a self destructive mode...

Still, even though Bush seems to be made in that bumkin/good ol' boy pattern, I strongly suspect his puppet masters won't let him nuke Iran or anywhere else in the Middle East that has huge oil deposits.... It's much easier to have Bush draft all of the good ol boys, and even those who were totally against going into Iraq in the first place... than to blow up all of that black gold....

Well i consider myself well educated and understand what we woul dbe getting into if we (he) decided to do this. Short term it maybe a bad thing but i think that it might be one of the only choices left but i guess we could just carpet bomb like pre-atomic days. I just bugs me when i see the news about people younger than me getting killed over there and i dont see much of an outcome. Not even the cold hearted way of looking for it to lower gas prices.

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ORIGINAL: mbz300sdl

Well i consider myself well educated and understand what we woul dbe getting into if we (he) decided to do this. Short term it maybe a bad thing but i think that it might be one of the only choices left but i guess we could just carpet bomb like pre-atomic days. I just bugs me when i see the news about people younger than me getting killed over there and i dont see much of an outcome. Not even the cold hearted way of looking for it to lower gas prices.

Carpet bombing was also done in Vietnam, and that was not pre nuclear bomb days.... Many times I flew over villages and people who were just trying to make a living. We flew in non pressurized aircraft. Our maximun altitude was 10,000 feet, but mostly we flew much lower. I'd often fly over the same area the next day, and in place of an active village and its people, there was nothing but scorched earth.... All of those children, and mothers and fathers and grand parents.... varporized by tons of bombs dropped from 40,000 feet by B52's which were designed to drop nuclear weapons on the USSR and China....

So I can see where you're coming from, that is, death is death... But Wrong is Wrong... Arogance is Wrong. Who are we to go into another country and kill its people? let alone its non combatants. They didn't ask the USA to come to their country and stick our noses in their civil war... In fact it's against international law for a country to interfer in a civil war... Yet we did it in Vietnam.... and Geeeez, Bush and his neo nuts are not only interfering in Iraq's civil war... The damned idiots created it!

Now we have people such as yourself... who always sounded so reasonable... now wanting to nuke them! Well, go ahead and nuke them. But remember, the USA is not the only nuclear power.... Nuke them and expect to be nuked in return, and for the rest of this century... and the USA will retaliate..... What utter madness such mad thoughts bring....

I know i just get fed up its not like i am cold hearted i just remember sitting in my computer programming class when i was a senior in high school in march 03 thinking casue we were all talking about it Vietnam II here we come. And i was right. Bush gets term two cause of gay marriage and stem-cell research. Things that the gov't has no business in!

No matter what i think this is going to make vietnam look like a cake walk exect i hope there is less loss of life!

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ORIGINAL: mbz300sdl

I know i just get fed up its not like i am cold hearted i just remember sitting in my computer programming class when i was a senior in high school in march 03 thinking casue we were all talking about it Vietnam II here we come. And i was right. Bush gets term two cause of gay marriage and stem-cell research. Things that the gov't has no business in!

No matter what i think this is going to make vietnam look like a cake walk exect i hope there is less loss of life!

Yeah, unfortunately you're most probably right.. The USA intends to have a military presence there at least until the oil wells run dry. Else why build those 16 permanant bases? So far it seems a good possibility that nearly 100,000 Iraqi non combatants have been killed or otherwised died as a direct result of the US invasion of Iraq, as well as over 3000 US military and who knows how many others have been maimed ... And all of those Democrats who voted alone with Bush's neo nutty Senators and Representatives to invade Iraq also have a hell of a lot to answer for...

As for myself.... I was recalled from the USAF reserves in 1962.. I stayed in because I liked flying around the world.... But I said it then, and I still believe it.... The true US hero s during the Vietnam era were those who went to jail rather than fight in an illegal war...I strongly suspect it's still true today... And as the occupation of Iraq continues, and the draft is re-instated, more and more will choose to go to jail, or move to another country..... And I salute them...

The draft would definately be the wrong answer these days just as it was back in the day. If we go in with the truely right reasons, get the job done and be out, it's no problem. But when you build a web of lies, deceptions, back-stabbing, under the table deals, and the likes, it complicates things to the point to where not only is the government trying to make the wrong reason look right, but trying to cover up all the mess it created and hope no one in it's camp get fed up and spill the beans.
The draft. Even though I am currently serving in the military, I think the draft is not a process that represent or should represent a country that go around the world preaching freedom, personal liberties, and the likes. But if you join the military you go to jail. Sounds like something that belongs in the Saddam regime. Hell, might as well let him go if we are going to follow his foot steps. Yet, without the right amount of forces, a war can't be won. But I don't think this is our war. Look at the history of Iraq, for example. Those three group of people in that country that are on the verge of an all out civil war have really never got along for hundreds of years. Of course a dictator can't be having civil uprest in his country so he usually make sure it's relatively quiet even if it isn't exactly the right means of doing it. Take him out the picture. Fine and dandy, Now you daling with another problem. You have the US forces, who isn't very well liked across the ME for various reasons, a foreign country of all things, coming in and telling how things should be and how things should be run. Would the US ever allow another country to do that on this soil? I serious doubt it so why should we do it to other countries? Imagine if Europe interfered in our civil war in the 1800s and telling us how to do things? I don't think either side would appreciate that too much. So then the shock of the US dies down a little. So who should rule? Which of the three groups should rule? Who should we endorse? The Shiites, Kurds, or how about the sunni? A civil war became unavoidable as soon as the US stepped foot on the ground and removed Saddam from power. I guess it came down to choosing the less of two evils. And Saddam was veiwed as the greater one. So I guess the question is how will we clean up this mess without losing supreme ruler of the world *cough* I mean super power status? I seriously think there is a deep scandal or huge error that the GOP is trying to cover up to save face and oil investments without the American people getting wise. Too late. I think the Democrats may probe a little just in spite until the get a nice cut from the war profits and then we can watch all discussions of leaving Iraq fade into the back of the news paper.

But are image is so messed up with this war it will take a while to get it back if we will ever get it back. This war have really exposed the weakness and greed and pig headedness of this countries strategic leaders to the point that countries that in the past wouldn't have even dared to even disagree with us are now saying "I'ma build a nuke and what are you going to do about it? Invade? Ha!" Sure we can drop a nuke or two thre or four or turn it into a parking lot with carpet bombing but unfortunately, this isn't the old days and this counrty is still ME oil dependent and isn't the sole supplier of everything so we are losing the big bad USA bully status. Now we are being put into a position that we must negociate things that we normally wouldn't have and of course we all know the GOP is no good at negociations beyond "do it or else." We used to be able to do sanctions without thinking twice. Now we do sanctions, they laugh and go to China.

corrections:
{quote}But if you join the military OR you go to jail {qoute}

....

Well said! But who knows, had there been a draft when we first went into Afghanistan, more middle and upper middle class families would have had a stake in events in the Middle East. Maybe we would have gone in, actually hunted down the bin Laden, the Bush family business partner, and came home....
As you are probably well aware of, right now, the US Army has ten divisions but needs a minimum of 12 divisions in order to meet the needs of many possible world events. If Bush isn't once again lying, and he does indeed intend to "double down" and rapidly increase the troop strength iin Iraq and "move forward" what ever the hell that means.... he'll need at minimum, 2 more divisions.... and hey, I don't see young people beating at the recruitment office doors....

The number one reasons I hear that young people or people in general are not knocking on the recruit door is because they either don't really understand what this war is all about, they are against it, or they feel it is more of a personal thing about a rich guy trying to get oil at the expense of human lives. And the media isn't really helping the war cause either.

Now if the draft was instated in the beginning, yeah, I think things would get done alot faster, assuming that there would've benn no way for the rich and upper middle class people to pay thier way or kids way out of it like leaving the brunt of the draft on people who can't afford to pay off the right people. That's where problems come in.

As far divisions, they are so far planning on shifting personnel and stuff to create that two divisions. Many army jobs (especially the garrison ones) are being turned into civilian jobs so that it can free up the soldiers for those two divisions. It's not final, but I so far it's looking like they are seriously considering going that road before they do the draft.

And I don't think they even thought we needed a draft in the beginning. I don't think they thought we even needed this many troops or time in the beginning since we did easily drive them out of Kuwait in 1991. But they failed to realized driving someone out of a country that isn't theirs and fighting in their backyad, home turf is a totally different monster and that's where heavy diplomatic skills come in handy. Sure we are killing the bad guys but we are also killing innocent people caught in the cross fire. I don't blame them for being out raged, the people that is (not the enemy). I know they don't do it on purpose but when an innocent child or elders civilans get killed by us, it don't help the situations and the enemy uses that as a springboard to fuel thier purpose and gain more people to fight against the evil that shoots, burns, rape civilians or abuse the prisoners. I know only a select few does this but that select few regardless of all the good things we do over there is damaging our cause. And of course even our own media rarely put good news on tv about the good things the troops do while down there. I guess it is not good for ratings. If everytime you turn on the tv you see or hear someone get blowed to bits, a soldier murders a Iraq family, a band of soldiers blow up a mosque killing everyone inside, scandal scandal scandal, of course people are not lining up at the door. I'm not saying lie yo people but I say show the whole truth. There are plenty of injured that come through this station that are iching to go back because they felt they are making a huge diffrence in the right way, and some of them don't believe in the whole war, but they believe in the good things they do are making a difference.
What a fine mess we got ourselves into though, but then again, what war isn't a mess.

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In fact it's against international law for a country to interfer in a civil war... Yet we did it in Vietnam.... and Geeeez, Bush and his neo nuts are not only interfering in Iraq's civil war... The damned idiots created it!

Now we have people such as yourself... who always sounded so reasonable... now wanting to nuke them! Well, go ahead and nuke them. But remember, the USA is not the only nuclear power.... Nuke them and expect to be nuked in return, and for the rest of this century... and the USA will retaliate..... What utter madness such mad thoughts bring....

i like this...it's very true.

at the end of the day, USA will remain to be the big demolition team of them all.

threats from iran and north korea to nuke USA will of course turn them into a glass factory .

they just hope that nuke can create diamonds too so in that case, they can benefit from it

I don't think we should be going around nuking people, however, the middle east would be the right place. They've been killing eachother for thousands of years and terrorizing. No one else does that. Everyone else has some sense and doesn't have the idea that God wants everyone murdered on mind. China will change in time because they're allowing trade into their counrty...which will lead to a free market. People will realize what's out there or either their government will collapse on itself.

OK, my thoughts.

A draft would create a fighting force high in volume and low in moral, like it always has. If we let Iraq sink, we lose. We lose our ability to be trusted by any country that may need our help (eg. Great Brittian ,Israel, France , Germany, South Korea). We also give OPEC even more leverage over the worlds oil supply.

Why is Afghanistan STILL the largest producer of Heroin? Because a drugged population is a quiet one and there is money to be made by corrupt governments, like ours.

The USA should have had the balls to do what will really work to prevent most foreign terrorism here in the first place. After 09/11/01 ALL persons within it's borders should have been required to show cause for their presence or citizenship, then issued a national ID card. No exceptions. The battle cry could have been "Round 'um up and sort 'um out!". All local governments should have been forced to enforce federal immigration laws. No exceptions. The feds could hold back funding as a caret. The congress should have declared war on a "defined idealism" and authorized the military to accomplish a defined mission. American Muslims should have stood up and be counted as "on America's side".

The government is too timid and the folks too sensitive. Rather, we have surveillance and general spying like a modern day Gestapo. Look at England. CCTV on every corner watching for littering. Is that where we are going? Is that Liberty? Is that what we are fighting for over seas?

I say the group of us should meat sit down and come up with a party platform and run in the next major election we seem to embody what the US rreally stands for and though we may disagree on a few smaller things overall i think we could do a better job than Dems or GOP.

Most people know what needs to be done, the government is not listening because they don't have too. ALTHOUGH....

I think the Rep's getting the boot may become a trend. " Throw ALL the bums out". Most Conservative issues across the country PASSED during the midterm election, it's the idiot do nothing members of congress that were shown the door. Good riddance!

If congress continues to waste money, tax us just for prestige, and ignore what is really wrong with our immigration law enforcement, the Dem's may just get the boot too. The next election will say a lot. The Rep's are throwing the president under the bus and will probably act like Dem's for the next ten years. Hold on to your wallet in the mean time.

The Dem's are proposing punishing the oil companies for making money. They have to know this will increase the price of fuel for everyone. What is really going on? The folks will boot them out for being stupid, if my theory is correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackWolf

The number one reasons I hear that young people or people in general are not knocking on the recruit door is because they either don't really understand what this war is all about, they are against it, or they feel it is more of a personal thing about a rich guy trying to get oil at the expense of human lives.

I tend to agree. But then most of the USA is ignorant regarding why we invaded... Geeeez, over 50% sitill believe that Sadam Hussein was tied to Al Queta! Most also still believe he had weapons of mass distruction! If one wants to actually get the facts, then one must read the foriegn press....

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And the media isn't really helping the war cause either.

Here I disagree... In fact, that's a favorite statement of "Faux" News....which will go to any extreme, tell any lie on behalf of Bush and his viscious band of neo nuts. For instance, The Baker led panel on Iraq solutions recently exposed the fact that Bush and company have been deliberately under reporting Iraqi casualties...So who know how many people have died or been wounded there, and that includes US military. Had the corporate media actually been doing its job, they would have dug up that little tidbit and exposed Bush and his gd'ed gangster for the war profiteering rats they are.

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Now if the draft was instated in the beginning, yeah, I think things would get done alot faster, assuming that there would've benn no way for the rich and upper middle class people to pay thier way or kids way out of it like leaving the brunt of the draft on people who can't afford to pay off the right people. That's where problems come in.

I tend to agree. The ultra rich, especially the ultra rich who are also connect to the Bush crime family don't answer to the same laws as the rest of us.

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As far divisions, they are so far planning on shifting personnel and stuff to create that two divisions. Many army jobs (especially the garrison ones) are being turned into civilian jobs so that it can free up the soldiers for those two divisions. It's not final, but I so far it's looking like they are seriously considering going that road before they do the draft.

Hiriing civilians to sub for the US military has not only been a complete failure... but I strongly suspect, if ever truly investigated we'll find that not only have the corporations hired to do the jobs been stealing from us, many high ranking officers and politicians have also gotten very fat off the money of we the people. If the present new Democratic power structure allows that to continue... then I strongly suspect we are witnessing the fall of the USA as a major world player...

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The government is too timid and the folks too sensitive. Rather, we have surveillance and general spying like a modern day Gestapo. Look at England. CCTV on every corner watching for littering. Is that where we are going? Is that Liberty? Is that what we are fighting for over seas?

I tend to agree.

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getting the boot may become a trend

I know thats what i do when it comes to my local elections if i see no progress in county roads or other things important to me Incumbants out and noobies in. If they can't get the job done lets try someone else!!!

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The government is too timid and the folks too sensitive. Rather, we have surveillance and general spying like a modern day Gestapo. Look at England. CCTV on every corner watching for littering. Is that where we are going? Is that Liberty? Is that what we are fighting for over seas?

I tend to agree.

Yeah i fogot to include that i agree with that earlier

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If the present new Democratic power structure allows that to continue... then I strongly suspect we are witnessing the fall of the USA as a major world

Basically.

Welcome to "The United Socialist Disunity of American States".

Our motto: Where equality is funded by corporations.

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ORIGINAL: BikerDrew

Welcome to "The United Socialist Disunity of American States".

Our motto: Where equality is funded by corporations.

I was stationed in England in 1955 and then lived in France for a year. Some years later, I lived in Germany. Although my schoolboy French was atrocious, and my German little better, It was a jolting eye opener to actually read newspapers and hear newscasters who actually do their jobs without a political agenda....

After a couple of years, it became apparent that the USA is the most propaganderized country in the world...

In fact, we're so propagandorized that the once strong blue color middle class who once enjoyed the benifits of a good union, can now barely survive.... Yet, thanks to the Corporation/Republicans who are systematically reducing the bulk of them to a poverty level of existence, the same middle class still supports the Corporation and blames all of their woes on the high cost of welfare.

With that in mind, while starkly understanding that you hate poets, etc... I echo the words of the Central American poet, John Oliver, " “¿No oyes caer las gotas de mi melancolía?” (“Can’t you hear the drops of my sadness falling?”)

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ORIGINAL: Charles Munn

With that in mind, while starkly understanding that you hate poets, etc...

 
Hate? ...Where? Who?  Stop projecting.