Prospective SL500 owner

I am looking at buying a SL500. From 1991-1998. Can somebody advise me on any major changes (e.g torque, HP features etc) to these models? Which one represents the best buy? I am hoping to gather as much information as I can.
Cheers!

You either want a post '96 or post '99 model. '99 saw the introduction of the M113 24V V8 which is a much better unit than the M119 engine and is used in the R230 SLs (although now due for replacement as it's 6 years old). Have a look at this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/history.htm

There are some inaccuracies but good for a general guide.

The M119 engine produced from model-years 1990-1998 is regarded as one of the finest engines Mercedes ever produced. But even the comparatively inferior M113 which succeeded it is a good engine, and I would not take this in to consideration when choosing a particular year.

Transmissions are another matter. For '96 a 5-speed electronically-controlled transmission replaced the earlier 4-speed. This transmission offers a considerably more refined driving experience over earlier models. However, early production versions had considerable reliability problems. For this reason I would tend to avoid the '96 model-year. Maybe '97 as well.

Models from '93 through '95 have a problem with disintegrating engine wiring harnesses. If you buy a car from this period and it has not had the wiring replaced, expect to spend about $1000 to have it done at some point.

A final consideration I would offer is repair costs. Non emission-related diagnostics on '96 and newer models require expensive tools. Many shops are not properly equiped, though the dealer is, of course. In contrast '95 and older models require nothing more than a 99-cent LED to retrieve diagnostics. Consequently, many simple repairs that would require a trip to the dealer on a newer car can be done by you are a basic repair shop on the older cars.

bobterry99,

you know the car much more than just owning it.

i fully agree with everything you said. excellent.

The M113 engine is regarded by anyone who services Mercedes V8s as a far better engine than the M119. It's lighter, more efficient, more reliable and creates a broader torque band for smoother power. No more distributor or valve guide problems for a start! Post '96 come with OBD2 (post '00 in Europe) which are just as easy to use diagnostic tools with to read and reset error codes. A reader is available for £15 in the UK. You can also buy an RS232 interface to OBD2 and software for monitoring and resetting from a laptop for £50.

It's called progress

i really got big headaches on those older 119. very difficult to diagnose because i need to connect lots of wires just to do the engine analysis.

Stats007 writes: "The M113 engine is regarded by anyone who services Mercedes V8s as a far better engine than the M119". I have found the opposite to be true. The techs and everyone else at mercedesshop.com all regard the M119 as the superior engine.

One tech's comments: "Dismantle a 119 engine and admire what was known as "Craftsmanship". Holes were drilled then threaded, all mating surfaces milled to perfection, truly built the "Old German Way!". Dismantle a 112 or a 113 and admire "Manufacturing". Holes that have self tapping bolts screwed in by a machine, non critical mating surfaces sealed with silicone sealer/filler, very evident that these are built the "Times a Million Way!". I love performing mechanical surgery on MBZ's formerly crafted engines but the new generation engines do very little for me beyond maintenance/triage!"

One of the tech/moderators writes: "The only reason [the M113 replaced the M119] was $$$$ & they are saving 50% over the cost of the M119. The M119 is a real engine!!"

Another tech/moderator was asked what the best M-B engine is: "119 engine all the way: One tough bastard."

And a forum member offers this anecdote: "while in Stuttgart...I had the opportunity to have lunch with some engineers from [DamilerChrysler] and they stated that the V8 E class with the M119 engine was the best engine build ever."

I hope Stats or someone can offer counterpoints. If the M113 is a better engine, I want to know it because I've been wanting to get one of the newer M-Bs but have been delaying solely because of the engine.

Finally, I think it is telling that with its new generation of engines Mercedes is abandoning the SOHC 3-valve per cylinder designs like the M113 and returning to the DOHC 4-valve per cylinder designs like the M119.

You can admire it all you like, but at the end of the day it had inherent design faults. The M119 had at least three revisions during it's lifespan and in the end it couldn't go any further. Maybe the US environment doesn't create the problems experienced here in the UK, but the reason I bought an M113 SL was 6 months of talking to owners and Mercedes specialists regarding the differences between the two. Regulations regarding recycling materials / emissions means modern engines can't be built in the same way- whilst I agree the M119 may be lovely to look at in pieces, this isn't going to help me unless I have the urge to stop using my car and strip it down. The M113 in PRACTISE is simply a better engine.

Oh and I don't recall AMG ever supercharging an M119 with the success it's had with the SL55

Stats, what were the inherent design faults in the M119? Were the 3 revisions to correct these?

How long have you got? The design faults were individual parts that failed - in particular the coils and distributors, guide rails, oil guides, lifters, belt and tensioner. You know about the wiring loom problems with heat. The revisions replaced camshafts, pistons, valve guide designs, crankshafts, cylinder heads and general improvements to increase economy / emissions with complete changes to fuel injection systems almost on a yearly basis.

If you want a complete list check out the WIS software.

Main revisions:

119.96*
119.97*
119.98*

At the end of it's life it was a great engine, but for my money I'd take (and have done) the M113 - even with it's 'inferior' 3 valve technology.

The thing that 'worries' me is how many owners actually know what engine or transmission they have in their car?

Anyway - this could go on forever - opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.

Yeah, the 113 doesn't enjoy the reputation the 119 has, but just the same it's difficult to fault it. And nobody does. Is it engineered and built on the cheap? Sure. But it performs as well as a 119 and gets the job done with less. With rising labor costs in Germany and competition from Lexus, Mercedes had to cut costs somewhere to hold market share...

J.mac, if you are still with this thread, the basic question to ask is this: do you want a '90-'95 or a '96-'02? The later cars have restyled bumpers to give the car a less square appearance which most people prefer. The older cars have a 4-speed automatic while the newer have a 5-speed. Drive both types and see which you prefer. I find the 5-speed makes the car considerably smoother and more refined but does so at the expense of character. And if you want to do your own diagnostics and repairs to save money, you may want an earlier car. The later OBDII cars require scanners which are very expensive for most diagnostics. The cheaper models can reset a check engine light but won't cut it when your soft top controller sets a code.

Hi
You guys seem to have very  good knowledge of the 119 motor. Would you know if a 1993 S500 119  Long Block will fit into my 96 Sl 500, and if so what would I need to do. The 93 motor has a 2 dist off 1  Cam on each head & the 96 has coil packs. On the 93 the left side intake cam sprocket  has 2 pickups for the cam sensor as the 96 has only 1 pickup for cam sensor. I have read some on an oil pump pick up change over  but really don''t see a problem with that. Any info would really help me.
Thanks MATT